153 Comments to ‘Pay The Man’: »
stoproyce:
1st! yes pay him and the barbarian as soon as possible lock them up they are essential to our success!
Tex:
Who said that the circus doesn’t stay in town for long? Another reason why Mrs. Doubtfire never fit in Dallas. Tex would trade for Adam, just to add another act to the greatest show on earth.
Tex:
“If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.” - Tex
First N Goal:
I won’t lie. I think there have been a tremendous amount of overpaid players this Free Agency, but Trufant would have been a fair 1st tier player available if he actually wan’t Franchise Tagged. That was a good move by those birds. Meanwhile, you have the D’Angelos’ being paid for something we can’t say they consistantly deserve. However, if the situation was Newman up for grabs, please believed he’d get F.T. until we could get a long term deal worked out for him.
I believe we’d shed Roy Williams (as much as it breaks my heart to see him decline so rapidly in value) before we let Terence go. To be candid, I hope we sign (given some resturcturing) Adam Jones. He is one of the best.
I thought Parcells was the circus.
I’m confused.
cormanman:
I don’t hear anyone being in favor of cutting ties with Newman, but many posters are assuming it is going to be easy to keep Canty, Ware, Barber, Newman, Hamlin, and to re-up T.O. I say it’s not.
All I’ve said is that is a large number of big contracts. We can’t do them all. Ware is a must-do because elite rushers are hard to find. He’s going to command a deal as big if not bigger than Romo’s.
We’re sitting up against the cap right now and many teams are below the cap. IMO there is a chance that the cap will shrink in the future (after 2010) because some owners are currently unable to sustain this level of spending. My understanding is that the owners want to share less of the money, which would seem to mean that the cap would shrink.
Maybe it won’t shrink, but I think it’s unlikely to continue to grow at a rapid clip. We’re already up against it.
I want to have a sustained title run that lasts five years or longer. In order to do that it will be imperative to maintain at least enough cap flexibility to add free agents from time to time. You can only have so many $6-10 million per year contracts before you are capped out. We’ve got our share already.
To dispell a couple of myths:
1) no, you can’t back load everything, agents are much smarter about that now
2) just because the Redskins mortgage the future and bankroll tons of dead money and renegotiate deals does not make it a good idea for us.
We need to take this seriously, and I think that the Jones’ are, but a lot of posters on this site are not.
Fighter15:
Very lucid argument corman. I have but one dissent.
You make the assumption that the cap is not going to grow much, but the estimates through 2010 are quite significant, based on current revenue contracts. And with teams raising ticket prices, those numbers will inevitably grow.
OK, two issues. The other is that you assume that all our current contracts will hold over and that our re-signing will simply add to the cap. There are 4 or 5 very high priced contracts that will be dumped or redone to accommodate the resignings. Roy Willy, Kosier, Ayodele immediately come to mind. Re-workings would include T.O., Romo, James, Gurode, etc. Not to mention a ~$7 million increase in the cap. There is plenty of money to sign all our priorities as long as it’s well spent.
And lastly, T.O. and Hamlin will cost less in renewed deals than they currently cost in terms of cap space. Methinks you worry too much. Let the accountants worry. We need the talent.
Fighter15:
With Pacman & Irvin together, think we can reopen the White House. I loved that place!
Gray:
I like this mock - via DMN
Tennessee State CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie went from a potential first-round pick to a guy projected by many experts to go in the top 10 after phenomenal performances at the Senior Bowl and scouting combine. But NFL.com’s Pat Kirwan sees the Cowboys getting the top corner on their board at No. 22.
The Cowboys’ picks in Kirwan’s latest mock draft:
22. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State
There’s always speculation the Cowboys are packaging their picks to move up for Darren McFadden. They can stay right where they are and satisfy two big needs, corner and wide receiver. The run on either spot earlier in the draft will determine which area they address first. Rodgers-Cromartie would be an excellent compliment to Terence Newman, but he might have to start his career as the nickel back. A 4.33-second 40-yard dash and size make him a steal at this spot.
28. DeSean Jackson, WR, California
Jerry Jones and Co. take the receiver/returner who can replace Terry Glenn and help open up the offense. Jackson’s size and some injury history should make him available at this point in the draft.
Kirwan sees Oregon RB Jonathan Stewart, the subject of today’s edition of our draft preview series, slipping to the second round. I’d be surprised if the Cowboys passed on Stewart twice, bad toe and all.
Becho:
If you take the middle ground between the arguments just posted we can expect to loose some players but keep most. I think the cowboys could live without Barber and TO. Yes if that is the case we would have to have an offense heavy draft this year but there is no reason we can not find their replacements this year. The outlook may not be so dire.
on another note, it would be sad to see TO and Barber leave but that is the way things go. they seem like the most logical choices. RB are very replaceable in todays NFL and TO is almost 35. Home town discount anyone?
birdness:
“No offense to the posters on your site ”
K.C. Joyner bahhhh, as if he knows anything about football.
birdness:
“because some owners are currently unable to sustain this level of spending.”
I believe the NFL is the most valuable league in sports, they have ESPN, Fox, CBS, NBC and ABC bidding against each other. Step onto the street or park and look how much NFL merchandise is out there.
Teams are having trouble with the CAP because the owners are idiots or just don’t care.
The small market Packers made the NFC Championship game.
The problem is not the ability to spend, it’s the players and a few wealthy win at all costs owners don’t want a CAP so it will likely expire.
Becho:
i would love stewrt at 22 but would prefer DRC. No way DRC is here though.
Everyone keeps talking about the top 4 corners but in my mind there are only 3. Talib is over rated and even though he would be nice at 28 I would not want him at 22. I would prefer phillips if he was there.
Fighter15:
OK, for all you socialists, like birdness, get your facts straight.
The main reason for the problems with the deal is not the big money owners not wanting to share with the players, it’s that they don’t want to subsidize crappy owners that don’t market their own teams, like Cincy’s Brown & Az’s Bidwell.
Having to simply give money to a “small market” team is WAY different than sharing the revenue.
Now the small market owners don’t like the current deal because of the subsidization as well. They don’t like the current wording that says “trust us, we’ll help you out” but doesn’t quantify it.
birdness:
That’s how I see it too. However, I’ve read mocks with Talib in the top 10. Somebody loves him, I have him in the second tier with Flowers, Cason and Porter. Any of those guys at #28 would be great, even better in a trade down.
birdness:
I agree Brown and Bidwell are idiot owners. Al Davis is an idiot owner. Do the Vikings even have an owner?
The Pats, Eagles, Colts and Cowboys are well managed.
rha:
Once again, don’t be surprised if a pressure player drops and we take him at 22. You cannot have enough QB hits and pressure.
I say we take Pacman if possible, grab that dropping pass rusher and the best CB left. We can get our WR in FA or round 2 and our RB in round 3.
It’s gunna happen, get ready.
BishopWest:
Copied from the last thread, but in relation to signing TNew:
Now that Trufant signed with SEA, for $50.2 million for 6 years, what does that say about JJ signing TNew for a long term deal?
To make it happen SEA had to restructure 4 defensive players’ contracts.
Here’s the list of recently signed long term deals with CBs.
Nate Clements 8 yrs $80 million
DeAngelo Hall 7 yrs $70 million
Asante Samuel 6 yrs $56 million
Marcus Trufant 6 yrs $50.2 million
N. Clements is 28 yrs old
M. Trufant is 27 yrs old
A. Samuel is 27 yrs old
D. Hall is 24 yrs old
TNew is currently 29 yrs old (30 in Sept.) and would probably expect a deal comparable to Clements, Trufant, and Samuel.
The average deal for those three guys would be:
7 yrs at $68.6 million
I don’t see that happening for TNew who will be 30 yrs old in Sept this year.
It’s more likely TNew signs a deal in the 5 year range, say for maybe $42 million, since he’s already bumping 30 yrs old.
Sign him already, as Raf said, there are no evidences of decline in his game.
birdness:
“don’t be surprised if a pressure player drops ”
Who is worthy of #22? I don’t see Gholston making it past the Pats.
Where would this pressure player line up - Ware’s spot, behind Ellis, next to Spencer and Carp on the bench?
Maybe we can get a pressure 3-4 DE. Is Campbell that guy how about Balmer?
So getting a quality pressure guy to sit behind our OLBs or battle with Canty, Hatcher, Spears and Ratliff is more important than an elite CB, RB, WR, OG or OT?
I understand the anybody can get injured arguement, but the team does have real needs and a warm body at DE is not that high. I could probably list 10 guys I’d want before any of the DE or OLBs.
rha:
Fighter is right, why would Jones want to subsidize a lazy ass owner sitting on his ass hosting cocktail parties rather than promoting his team?
Say what you want about Jones, but the guy works his ass off promoting this team every single day. He is relentless.
He is already subsidizing the league simply by building the Cowboy franchise. What team does not sellout when Dallas comes to town?
Why should Jones also share his income? If Oakland cannot make it go, let them move to LA, never mind, tried that.
Why do teams like Indy, NE, and GB prosper and other small markets struggle, simple, ownership and management.
Gray:
2nd round mock -
http://dal.scout.com/a.z?s=112&p=2&c=738694
MBIII!!!
cormanman:
Another rant, the thought that if we acquire Adam Jones means that CB is no longer a priority really make me think that there is waaaay too much overconfidence in Adam Jones, the injury history of A. Henry, and the potential of our late round picks and practice squad players.
First, you must have three corners who can play. We have Newman and oft-injured Henry. We have one and a half. Or, two some weeks but one on other weeks.
Second, Adam Jones is far from a sure thing. Where to start…
1 - currently not even reinstated,
2 - is in the drug program,
3 - is probably one more behavior or drug related strike from a lifetime ban (or at least another year off)
4 - he has not played in a year
Even if we get this guy we must pretend that he’s not even on the team. We simply can’t trust him to be reliable. He has to do it and that only happens with time. So, IMO acquiring the guy means absolutely nothing. We go about our roster as if he’s not there.
Second issue, Anthony Henry is the DEFINITION of injury prone. Look it up, his picture is right there. Every year he is out or is diminished for 5-8 games. He’s not getting younger and there is no reason to think that the injury situation will change with him.
Third: Hamlin is on a one year deal, Brown is a 7th round pick, Ogalalaalal (whatever) is a practice squad caliber guy, Watkins is average at best and often not that. We desperately need to add two players who we could live with if they had to play extended minutes. PacMan does not count toward those two players. And hey, if we come away with three legit new corners (PacMan and two draft picks) then we move Henry to FS or we trade someone.
I’m not saying that we don’t need a RB and a WR too, but getting a CB that can play now is critical. And, it is a relatively safe position to spend first round picks on, as there are few busts. So, stay with me here…
1 - CB is definitely a need
2 - CB is a low risk position to draft in round 1
3 - We have two first round picks
4 - There is not much difference in the top 10 WRs this season
5 - WR is a high bust position
6 - RB can be found in almost any round (though I advocate taking one by the second).
All that means that if a top CB is available at 22 that we jump on him, as that goes a long way toward solving one of our three problems. If a top 3 RB falls to 28 then it is hard not to pick him there. If there’s not top RB sitting there then trade down for extra second round picks and go WR & RB in round two. Then we go with BPA the rest of the draft at NT, S, CB, and maybe go for OL, LB, and even RB again late in the draft.
Fighter15:
Where were we? Oh, yeah, smacking down the inane argument of letting T-New go.
Seriously, I’m really having trouble being civil. mmm…ok, here goes…ARE YOU SUPID OR JUST PLAIN DUMB? (Stupid is as stupid does)
Are you simply “Forest Gumping” your way through life?
The second best and maybe most important player on our team is going to be resigned. No ifs, ands, or (dumbasses) about it.
scout:
Great job Rafael!
Great job on your quantitative research, K.C. Joyner.
Terence Newman was the 5th pick of the draft. He has been the highest drafted cornerback this decade, and he has backed it up on the field. Terence Newman at #5, and DeMarcus Ware at #11. Those are two once in a lifetime picks.
When you get elite blue-chip players like this, and they produce up to their ability, you lock them up forever.
Fighter15:
Amen, brother scout, testify!
Listening to Pacman give excuse after excuse to Irvin for all of the incidents did not give me any reason to believe he’s ready to come back into the league. CB should be a high priority in the draft, with or without Pacman. Not just because Pacman apparently still blames everyone else for his problems, but because both of the current starters were injured, and their main backup went to Houston.
Becho:
yeah i watched games with talib, and yes he is a ballhawk but in no way is he a shut down corner. i think he will be burned to another level in the pros
scout:
Jim Vance,
No problem on your question.
In my opinion, Seattle needs a tightend or some d-line help or help at WR. Deon Branch will miss significant time due to a playoff injury, and D.J. Hackett is gone.
They could reach on a TE or wait until round 2. They could go for Balmer at DT, but he might be gone, or they may go with an offensive player with value at # 25.
They will look at Stewart (if available), DeSean Jackson, Devin Thomas (if on the board), or Mario Manningham.
Stewart is the best player on the board. He has better value than any of the listed players, and he would be a safe pick for the money. You don’t get the opportunity to draft a potential franchise back with Stewart’s skill set in the late 20’s.
T.J. Duckett is in there for short yardage situations, and Julius Jones hasn’t proven to be a franchise back.
They could pass on a running back and take a WR if they think they can get the best out of Jones. They could take Thomas if he is there or Jackson. They lost D.J. Hackett, but they have a young player from Auburn that did well last year.
If I had to predict the pick, I would say Stewart over the WR.
I read on NFL Draft Scout where the toe isn’t a concern to the NFL GMs and Doctors. It is his availability, which may not be until August.
Dallas and Seattle have the experience in place at RB to offset a August return to football.
Plus, some teams have Mendenhall rated ahead of Stewart. I think Seattle and Dallas are not two of those teams, but I’m conjecturing there.
I think Tennessee would think long and hard about Stewart as well.
You could get him at #28, but I wouldn’t count on it at all.
swhy19:
newman will be 31 when his contract expires….that’s alot of cash to give an aging corner
Squidlo97:
Well hell, lets drop our shorts and bend over and hand Tnew a blank check and we will even let him pick the number of years.
CaptainComeback:
I hope we can keep T New too, BUT in my opinion I think he is a little overrated. Maybe we can find his replacement in the draft.
scout:
I know my opinion didn’t set well with Marion Barber fans, and you are welcome to counter it for sure.
If Dallas plans on retaining Barber, I just hope they don’t waste a late first or second round pick on a complement running back. Dallas has too many other things to think about.
A pick on a platoon running back at # 28 or in the second round, in my opinion, could be a WR who would project to the Z position.
In my opinion, if Barber gets his big deal from Dallas, Dallas would make a big mistake drafting Felix Jones at # 28 in order to platoon at RB. First round draft picks are significant draft capital. Putting that much capital in two players at one position is questionable, especially with players like Canty and Hamlin not signed.
Spread the draft wealth to other positions of need, not on a first or second round (part time) player at running back.
In my opinion, you only draft Felix Jones at # 28 if you think he is your franchise running back. That would mean Barber is gone if I’m Jerry Jones, and I’m not. It isn’t personal against Barber. I like him.
The choice would be a cost cutting move made by the luck of the draft and an attempt to get one potential elite runningback with all the skill sets of the position. You pay one person and draft a guy in the later round to spell him.
Felix has proven to be a finesse running back to this point. He played in a tricky offense, and he didn’t have to pass block much, because Arkansas didn’t throw it very much.
If Dallas drafts a running back in round one, I really hope it is Jonathan Stewart. If he went back to school and put up another great year, you are talking about a probable top ten pick.
scout:
Fighter 15,
There is a Russian Mig at 2:00.
birdness:
A week ago I said 50 over 5, is much better than 70 over 7. Either way Jerry has to pay Tnew and hope for quality play for several years.
The alternative is to play him out, tag him another year and let him walk. Two years from now he’ll still get a 5/50 offer from somebody - maybe Al Davis.
Injury free, Tnew’s good for at least 5 more. Jerry needs to extend him.
squid,
“Let’s bend over and drop our shorts and hand TNew a blank check…”
So T New has been drawing pay out out of your ass? Do tell.
swhy19,
It’s called relative value. You’re assuming that Newman can’t be worth big money when he’s 32 or 33.
The evidence we have is that Newman’s play has not shown any sign of decline.
And Newman is one of the best corners in the game.
If he’s better than almost all the corners at age 29, he could still have a small decline and be one of the best NFL corners four or five years from now.
You pay him *relative to his peers*. Why do you think a guy like Barry Bonds got huge money in his 30s (and please no steroids jokes; everybody in baseball uses them).
It’s because a declining Bonds was still better than almost every other player out there.
You rank TNew — and every other player — against all the other options out there, not against himself.
Chandus:
On Terence Newman:
Oh, yes, lock the guy down, even if you have to pay a little more than what Seattle paid, with as little thread as he has on his body he’s going to be playing at a high level like Darrell Green could late in his 30s.
And Cormanman:
1) no, you can’t back load everything, agents are much smarter about that now
That’s interesting, right? Your problem is that you have that backwards… Agents and players are smarter and it’s why they’re signing this backloaded contracts. They aren’t signing for the total value, they’re signing because of the signing bonus which is what they’re guaranteed to get, even if they’re placed on the street again.
Let’s look at DeAngelo Hall, if his deal looks like the one of Nate Clements, in 4 or 5 years Oakland will bail out of his deal and Hall inmediatelly get’s his prorated signing bonus and at 29 or 30 years more than one team will be willing to give him another big deal. In that year he’s going to haul his prorated money and a new contract… He has to be really dumb to sign such a thing…
birdness:
“BUT in my opinion I think he is a little overrated”
Tnew is the best CB that never gets talked about outside Boysworld. He may not make many picks but he gives up zero big plays - ZERO. He locks down top WRs every game, every year, (this was his first real injury) and this is also the first time he made the ProBowl - hardly overrated.
birdness:
“T New has been drawing pay out out of your ass”
I hear it works like an ATM, the upside is nobody will ever swipe your card.
birdness:
“declining Bonds, who was nowhere as good at 34 as he was at 30″
I don’t follow baseball because every free moment is spent here. Didn’t Bonds get better through his 30s? Big money to grow that big head.
swhy19:
raf -
The thing is I don’t see him as a top corner in the league.
If I’m giving a guy 50mil to play corner, I want him 1-1 on Moss / Steve Smith / etc all day long…Newman can’t do that, at least not from the games I’ve watched
and…
I don’t overpay a guy just because everyone else at that position is getting overpaid
scout:
Terence Newman will get his money from Dallas. His play on the field is in the elite class. You have to be drafting in the top 5 to get players like him. Not only that, you have to hope their is a player of Newman’s caliber in the top 5.
Put Newman and Trufant on waivers and see who goes first.
Newman’s play in 2005 and 2006 deserved pro bowl recognition. In fact in 2005, any person that disputes this will lose the argument for sure with anyone that knows the true story of that season.
Newman made a strong case for a pro bowl bid his rookie year.
Terence Newman never missed a game until last year. There are ways Dallas can preserve him. His game is built on mid 4.3 speed, elite agility (that includes a 41.5 inch verticle jump), elite quickness, intelligence, toughness and great heart. Newman is one of the best conditioned players in the NFL. He is a work out freak.
(He came off the bench in game 4 after playing part time the previous game and took Tory Holt and handled him.)
One way of preserving him is training in Oxnard, instead of that concrete they were on in San Antonio.
Newman isn’t your average “30″ year old corner. Newman is built for the long haul.
Joyner makes a great point, there has been no drop off in Newman’s play.
29 to 30, 30-31, 31-32, 32-33…
How are some people so sure he is going to melt or fall apart?
What is the big difference in 31 and 32 or 32 and 33?
Is he just going to fall off the map one day when he wakes up on his birthday?
swhy,
You watching the same games as me? Newman took Steve Smith everywhere the last few years. Did Smith ever have a big game against Dallas?
How many catches did Moss have in the Dallas game? How many times did New England throw at Newman? They torched Jones and Reeves to a lesser extent. Welker ate Jones alive and Stallworth torched Reeves once Dallas stopped giving him help and going to max blitzes in the 4th quarter.
swhy19:
scout - so in years 4 and 5 of the deal when he’s 35 and 36 years old, you don’t mind paying a situational corner, top corner money?
I have enough trouble watching roy williams not earn money , i don’t need any guy in the secondary like that
swhy19:
how bout the playoff game against carolina??? how’d newman do than?
CaptainComeback:
“this is also the first time he made the Pro Bowl”
My point exactly. The reason he is talked about in “Boysworld” is he was our first rd pick. A little overrated for a number 7 pick in the draft.
bigmoney:
I suppose I’m one of the disagreeing posters. Newman (9/4/78) will be 31 at the start of the new contract that he gets from whomever. If he signs one similar to that posted above the garanteed part will last until he is 36.
My thought is not that he doesn’t play currently at a high level but that the probability that he maintains or increases his level of play decreases each year past the age of 31 or 32.
During the 2011 - 2013 seasons we will have in our cap numbers an aging corner that is either OK, half assed or not on the roster.
Take your emotions out of this and use a little logic. I agree with birdness that at most we will tag him one year them let him fly like a birdie.
swhy19:
i don’t think we can count the carolina game when delhomme isn’t playing…
I just don’t want to pay a guy that kind of cash when the giants proved you can win without a dominant secondary…
DWare and Owens are a much higher priority to me at this point than Newman….if Newman wants to pout about money…so be it
swhy,
He won’t be a situational corner at that age. He’ll be a starter or he’ll go the Rod Woodson route and be a top safety.
Mister if you can’t see that Newman is quality now, there’s no convincing you.
CaptainComeback:
Priorirties:D Ware, T.O., Hamlin, Canty
Bye Bye: Newman,Barber
Or we can just resign every Free Agent we have, which seems to be the consensus (70%) in the Blog. You can’t be afraid to lose guys. I’ll admit I was wrong on Flo, I’m glad we resigned him. But you can kick MB3 and T New in the ass.
Let the verbal bashing begin.
swhy,
The Carolina playoff game? Newman’s rookie year? And New York showed you can win a Super Bowl without a top secondary.
You can do anything with a deficiency. Baltimore won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer after all.
But does that mean you try, if you can avoid it? Look at Dallas’ history. Did they have sub-par secondaries when they won titles?
No.
The first team has Herb Adderly and Mel Renfro on the edges. Two Hall of Famers. The second team was so-so, with Mark Washington and Bennie Barnes. And the lack of a blue chipper is what helped give Pittsburgh an edge in the two SBs Dallas lost.
In the ’90s, what? A young Kevin Smith, who was dominant if unsung and later Deion.
CaptainComeback:
Raf, Rod was toast late in his career. (Bad comparison.)
If you guys want to tell me that we can afford everybody TO, Hamlin, MB3, Canty, Newman and who ever else, then God Bless. Let’s keep ‘em all.
I’m just looking at it from a standpoint that, somebody’ s got to go. Who is the easiest to replace.
CaptainComeback,
What’s harder to replace, a top notch corner or a FS? Or a RB? Or a 3-4 DE?
That’s WHY good but not great corners are getting such huge money, because the supply is so small.
Barber and Hamlin are the easiest to replace.
Newman is one of the hardest to replace.
bigmoney:
Canty
Ware
Barber
Hamlin
TO
Brad Johnson or some other QB
Colombo
Spears
Burnett
Ellis
2008 draft
2009 draft
We have to pay all of these guys. Which ones do we let go to give Newman a Trufant deal?
Boy from Oz:
Swhy - don’t know what games you’ve been watching, but over the last 2-3 years Newman has absolutely owned Steve Smith - shut him right down when he was the top WR in the league.
When we played the Pats, Welker and Stallworth ripped us up, not Moss. Moss was held to 59 yds and a 9.8 yd/catch average. Well under his 110 yd average per game and 17 yd ave per catch he had in the 5 games prior.
Chandus:
My 3rd Mock:
- The Cowboys trade pick 22nd and 61st for the Bears 14th (Points: 1100 - 1072).
1st Round: Mike Jenkins, CB. Even if Pacman Jones is signed, you can’t trust that he’s going to behave. You also can’t trust that Anthony Henry will be healthy. You can hope that everything will go for the best, but Front Offices have to look at things thinking in the worst case scenarios and they just can’t trust both CBs.
- The Cowboys trade pick 28th with Atlanta for picks 48th (2nd) and 69th (3rd).
2nd Round: Red Bryant, NT. Value at 2 positions as he would fortify the NT position and Ratliff would fortify the DE position. After this I would try to trade Spears for a 3rd Rounder.
3rd Round A: Eddie Royal, WR. Prototype burner at WR that won’t be drafted higher because the VTech QBs sucked, fortifies the 3 WRs sets and punt returns.
3rd Round B: Kevin Smith, RB. Real solid backup for Marion Barber, who’s going to be signed long term. Has a lot of thread on his tires but shouldn’t be asked to do too much early on, just like Barber did early in his rookie season.
4th Round: Marcus Monk, WR. Comes from an injury hampered Senior season and has a lot of warts as a receiver, but with a 6′4 and 220 pounds body that can run a 4.49 40 he’s going to be drafted a lot higher than what he was supposed to.
- The Cowboys trades their 5th Rounder for Pacman Jones with crossed fingers.
6th and 7th Rounds? C/G and STs.
bigmoney:
Raf,
Improve the pass rush and cover 2 will be enough.
There is not a Newman on the Giants team. I can name several teams that are gettin by without a Newman.
Pressure made all the difference in the world. That’s why I wouldn’t de supprised if we don’t go that route in the draft if someone drops.
Boy from Oz:
Swhy - maybe you have been watching the highlight reels on the “Entertainment Sports” network.
T-New nullifies his opponents week after week. The knock on him is he doesn’t get a lot of INT’s (has bricks for hands).
But would you rather have a DeAngelo Hall who gives up 2 TD’s for every INT he gets? The advantage of that approach for Hall is he gets on ESPN highlights 3 times.
2 seasons ago T-New gave up ZERO TD’s for the entire season. Zero. If that is not the definition of “shutdown” I don’t know what is.
cormanman:
Chandus, IMO players are not playing for the backloaded money. They know that they will never see that. They are playing for the guaranteed money, which is coming up.
I understand that a 5 year $50 million dollar deal that includes a $14 million dollar bonus is not really a $50 million dollar deal. However it probably is a 3 year deal that nets $25 million after salaries, guaranteed money, signing bonus, and performance bonuses.
$8.5 million per year for three years, it still ain’t cheap (though admittedly not as bad as it sounds when it is signed).
scout:
swy,
Here is the score with Steve Smith, and Jake Dehlome went to the Super Bowl. (winner in caps)
2003 @ Dallas (NEWMAN)
2003 @ Carolina (SMITH)
2005 @ Carolina (NEWMAN)
2006 @ Carolina (NEWMAN)
2007 @ Carilina (SMITH)
Newman won 3 out of the first four matchk-ups. In 2005 and 2006, Newman took Smith all over the field and shut him down.
Go back and look at what Smith did to Tampa Bay and Baltimore and Atlanta during this time frame.
Go back and look at the numbers that Smith had.
Name one other corner who has taken Steve Smith all over the field and shut him down for one game, much less two.
Terence Nemwan is the best slot defender in the NFL. He can cover small and quick players like Steve Smith and Santana Moss and bigger receivers like Plaxico Burress. By the way, according to Albert Breer, Newman did an outstanding job on Burress in the second Giants’ game.
I saw Dallas Clark put big numbers on Champ Bailey this year.
Champ is probably going to get another big contract too. He is already talking about it.
scout:
In 2007, Smith scored a late win with a big play. That was the first play he had made on Newman since Newman’s rookier year. That play last year came after Nemwan clearly wasn’t himself after getting hurt on a DeAngelo Williams’ stiff arm. Tim Wilson will tell you.
scout:
I’m getting upset. I can’t spell anymore. I have to quit.
bigmoney:
Chandus,
Don’t think we’ll trade up.
I like Eddie Royal and Kevin Smith but I don’t like Bryant. Don’t think JJ will draft another big, fat and lazy DT and definitely not that early.
Monk is good value at that point. I think we got another 5th from Miami for Ferguson.
O-line and safeties are bad to close.
Boy from Oz:
One final point on T-New.
Darrell Green made the Pro Bowl at the age of 37 and 38. He played, and contributed, to the age of 42.
T-New keeps himself in great shape. If we sign him to a 5-6 year deal there is every reason to be confident he will earn his money through that period.
“Shut-down” corners are mythical objects - but T-New is about as close as it gets. We would be crazy to let him get away.
CaptainComeback:
I agree CB’s are to replace but not impossible.
We can have the best 2 CB’s in the league but if we don’t have Ware, Canty and Ellis bringing heat then it doesn’t matter.
I want some of you guys to answers Big Money post #54. Who would you like to let go?
I’m assuming you guys think we can keep everybody. If that’s the case, then fine. I’d like to keep everybody too.
Fighter15:
If ignorance is bliss, there are quite a few happy people here.
The list of great corners playing well into their 30’s is long and distinguished. I started to list them but started getting carpel tunnel.
Further, if he starts declining, then you cut him.
But right now, he’s in the top 5 players at a position that is second only to QB at finding elite talent.
As for the cap, you guys simply gotta stop. Let the team worry about the numbers. I’ve tried to assuage your fears by showing the simple scenarios, but some must be accountants, so there’s just no appeasing you. Oh well.
Again, let’s worry about next year’s problems…next year. Worry about the talent holes and places we can and should upgrade. Let Stephen make the numbers work. He’s been masterful to date.
Chandus:
Next season, are the Cowboys capable of paying big dollars for some of the best players?
How much cap room is the team supposed to have? Knowing that Barber, Canty, Hamlin, Owens, Colombo and Brad Johnson aren’t on the books next year, my best guess is that the team will have close to $30Ms in cap space (Barber $2.35Ms, Canty $2Ms, Owens $8Ms, Hamlin $4.5Ms, Colombo around $3Ms, Johnson around $3Ms and the cap increment per year, little less than $7Ms).
Also, knowing that some players can be replaced frees more cap room, I’m talking about Kosier, Ayodele and Roy Williams. With those 3 you’re clearing close to $8Ms.
Yeah, the team will have enough money to resign Newman, Ware, Barber, Canty and whoever else they think necessary.
I already answered that question, but I’ll do it again –
Barber and Hamlin.
And one of the kids should be ready to take Colombo’s place.
bigmoney:
Darrell Green was an aberration. He is on of hundreds that accomplished this.
It’s curtainly possible that Newman can pull a Darrell Green but the odds are against it happenning.
It’s not worth the money to cut younger players to take the risk.
CaptainComeback:
If you are correct Chandus, then I’m all for keeping everybody.
FanSince72:
I don’t think anyone is questioning Newman’s ability. We all want to keep him on the team. The problem is that someone has to be let go since everybody wants to get paid. Who do you let go? At Newman’s expected rate, you can bring in 2-3 good players instead. Superbowls are not won by who has the most super stars, they are won by having good role players who step up in the big game and complement what the superstars do. Do you need superstars, sure, but how much impact does a superstar CB have versus a superstar like Ware? If you have to choose, then pick the one with the most impact that helps you win the game.
This is part of the problem we had in the late 90’s. We paid the superstars and couldn’t afford to bring in a good supporting cast.
Superstars will always do what they do every game, but they need help. You need that extra oomph to put you over the top that come from role players playing big.
The NFL is not like the NBA where you can win with 2 great players. In the NFL, you need a good team with as few holes as possible.
So then, the issue becomes, can we keep Newman and still keep the holes plugged? I am not so sure.
CaptainComeback:
I hear ya Raf, that why I’ve been on the Anti-MB3 Bandwagon. Hamlin on the other hand, is a tough call. He made the defense a hell of a lot better last year. I couldn’t imagine having somebody untested next to Roy. To me we’ve got to pay Hamlin
Fighter15:
Easy Capt,
None of the above. It’s not only possible, it’s actually quite simple. Let’s say the $7 mil growth estimate (which is very conservative) is the mark.
T.O.’s deal will be a cap savings of $2+mil
Canty - $5 mil avg adds $4.5 mil
Ware - $7 mil avg adds $5 mil
Barber - $4 mil avg adds $1.5 mil
Hamlin - $3 mil avg saves $1 mil
Brad Johnson or some other QB - wash
Colombo - replaced by Free/McQ saving $1.5 mil
Spears - replaced or resigned for a wash
Burnett - Let’s say $2 mil hit
Ellis - signed through 2009 anyway
That’s about an extra $1.5 mil over the projected cap increase. Not even worth discussing, but Ayodele gets you $5 mil alone.
CaptainComeback:
FanSince 72, nice post.
birdness:
“Take your emotions out of this and use a little logic”
Playout contract and tag is an option but I would much prefer the 5/50 year contract. I bet Tnew’s agent pushes for 7/65
birdness:
“he’ll go the Rod Woodson route and be a top safety.”
He’ll be a strong #2 CB for a year or two prior to becoming our FS.
CaptainComeback,
I’d cut Williams after ‘08 and keep Hamlin.
2. Send Barber somewhere. I love him but he’s far more likely to be broken down in four years than Newman and much easier to replace.
3. Let Colombo go.
4. Trade or release Ayodele.
Look, T.O. is what, 33, 34? And people are ready to keep him because he keeps himself in incredible shape.
So does Newman. And he’s faster than T.O. Why can’t he still be at the same T.O. level at 33 and 34?
birdness:
“resign every Free Agent we have, which seems to be the consensus (70%) in the Blog”
Extend quality players one time, never sign a third contract with a free agent. Flo will play old long before Tnew.
Chandus:
BTW, Ferguson already freed a noticeable amount of money from the cap in 2009, IMO it’s going to be easy for the team to have close to $40Ms in free space that year, more than enough to give huge deals for Newman, Ware and Roy Williams (not thong, the WR is a FA in 2009).
I think that this year Jerry will restructure a couple, or 3, of deals, paying them back in the upcoming year, to sign Newman, Barber and Canty long term, maybe Hamlin.
Knowing how they have drafted, I can’t see cap problems in the future, they would need a return of the Jerry Jones of the late 90s for them to start having problems (let’s knock on wood).
KDP_KINGPIN:
These are the players the Cowboys have invited in for visits so far and where I’ve seen them projected…
UNLV ILB Beau Bell - 4th round
Virginia Tech OT Duane Brown - 2nd/3rd
Arizona CB Antoine Cason late 1st/early 2nd
Texas RB Jamaal Charles 2nd
Missouri WR Will Franklin - late 2nd
Virginia Tech CB Brandon Flowers late 1st/early 2nd
Iowa CB Charles Godfrey - 2nd
Indiana WR James Hardy late 1st/early 2nd
Arkansas RB Felix Jones - 2nd
Oklahoma WR Malcolm Kelly - 1st
Troy CB Leodis McKelvin - top 10
Indiana CB Tracy Porter - 2nd
Tennessee State CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - 1st
I think they have a good representation of all the scenarios that could play out. They have the first round receivers in Kelly and Hardy. 2 second round running backs. 3 first round corners and 3 second round corners (early and late) a 3rd round tackle and a 4th round ILB…
to me it looks exactly how the consensus views the Cowboys draft priorities.
CaptainComeback:
I’m for Akin, Thong Williams and Colombo hitting the high road, even Barber…like you suggested.
If we can afford it, I’d love to keep:
TO, D Ware, T New, Hamlin and Canty.
Fighter, Don’t forget to save some money for Jerry to sign a FA outside the organization. If you think he’s going to be a good boy to years in a row, I got new for you. Thanks for your salary breakdown.
birdness:
“possible that Newman can pull a Darrell Green ”
However it’s highly likely that he will be a solid if not dominant CB 5 years from now. 10 more years is a long stretch.
Becho:
Yeah if we are responding to post 54 I am on board with loosing Colombo, spears, Barber, Burkett, Johnson. That may be overkill but those guys are the most replaceable. TO follows shortly thereafter.
bigmoney:
Motivation!!!!
Newman wants to get paid.
TO wants to win a superbowl.
Not saying that each doesn’t want the other but that the above is their greatest motivation when signing.
I believe TO’s will be far more cap friendly and shorter.
birdness:
“to me it looks exactly how the consensus views the Cowboys draft priorities.”
Think the staff reads this board?
KDP_KINGPIN:
birdness:
“to me it looks exactly how the consensus views the Cowboys draft priorities.â€
Think the staff reads this board?
If they were smart they would… best Cowboys dialogue out there. Intelligent comments are wasted at DMN and cowboys.com
Squidlo97:
Baseball is not relative, they have no salary cap.
I think Tnew is a hell of a corner. I like the analytical spin that KC Joyner does and think its a very good grading system, Having said that I didnt need it to know how good and dominant Tnew is. I also didnt see any drop off but instead more improvement. He was the best he has ever been and a case could be made for best in league last year.
Post 35 is an excellent point and hard to argue with. Im simply basing my opinion on a few factors. Age, its risky. Money, FA contracts are what hurt your cap. We have alot of young guys coming into their FA contracts. Not to mention we may need another WR in FA. You have to be smart with FA contracts.
Many on here always point to the Redskins and cap management. I point to the Patriots and cap management. Who you pick out of these two for cap management says all I need to know about you. You point out the Redskins and you have instant discreditation.
Lastly I think Tnew is 31 and has to get every penny he can cause this is it. I just dont think he will be as generous or cap friendly.( I would love to be wrong) I dont blame him, I love Dallas since I could remember but if Im him then team Squidlo comes 1st and last. Did you ever think you would hear Tnew speak out like he did last week. He wants to be paid like his peers. Unfortunately the FA market has skewed the numbers. I like 5 year 40 million with 35 gauranteed. He takes less money but a big fat gaurantee. He is a fitness freak so he might be able to get another 2 year deal at 36. If he is in primetime shape and no drop off we could extend him after 3years.
Fighter15:
I almost forgot, but cutting Glenn next year will free about $7 mil for the WR FA signing that everyone is talking about. OK, it’ll be around $5 mil for ‘08 but the slot is worth $7 or so.
Don’t forget about the Roy Willy, Kosier, and Ayodele slots as well. We’ve got young talent to plug into lower slot areas and replace them with our re-signings.
Again, there is nothing we’re talking about that Stephen doesn’t have a plan for. He’s already said so.
CaptainComeback:
Forgot about Glenn too. Nice!!!!!
We’ve got cash! Let’s spend it!!!!
jevans1729:
Fighter
Thanks for the salary post. Now we can stop all of this T-New getting cut nonsense.
CaptainComeback:
J, Nobody wanted to “cut” him. We were just questioning resigning him. The consensus seems to be that we can afford everybody given the salary dumps next year.
You don’t really want to talk about the draft do you?
jarhead:
put me on the “sign Tnew” bandwagon.
If we can get him for 20mil guaranteed, that can be spread over 4 years. sign him for 5 and the 5th will have a small cap hit.
its a solid bet he’ll play at a high level till 34-35.
i dont know his current cap hit, but around 5mil per for a starting CB with his experience is cap friendly.
i’d still work to re-sign MB, but Tnew and Ware come first on the priority list.
jarhead:
Washington Post reports that skins will play at NY for the regular season opener the thursday before the 1st week.
i really thought it would be dallas, not that Im disappointed mind you. I just thought for sure the NFL would throw that one out, ratings bonanza.
however, i guess it will be a ratings bonanza anyway b/c everyone will be jazzed for a regular season game by then.
Have they announced camp dates yet? Southwest has this dandy $79 non-stop rate from Austin to L.A. and I’m itching to buy but don’t know when camp will start…
jarhead:
doesnt sound like it, but they wont start early b/c they dont have that thursday game. it should be comparable to when they started out in cali in the past.
scout:
I think I am getting a read on which type of WR Dallas might go after early. (Round one or two)
I think they will look to draft a Z receiver if they draft one early.
I think they might look for a late round steal if they draft an X receiver. (split-end)
Rafael’s post ( # 77 which I very much agree with) supports my theory on which type of WR we may target early.
Rafael pointed out T.O.’s outstanding physical condition. Dallas will not want to let him go after this year. I could see a 3-4 year deal with T.O., at least that long. You wouldn’t draft an X receiver in round one if you plan on bringing T.O. back.
If this is the case, Terry Glenn takes top priority for sure. Dallas wants more speed on offense to go with Glenn, a player to stress out defenses by helping Owens and Witten stretch the field.
Who are the late first or early second round WRs who fit in the speedy Z position mold? I’m talking about the flanker position.
Devin Thomas and Mario Manningham fit this profile. Both will have to learn how to deal with more physical corners at the line, but they will get stronger in time.
We know Dallas really likes Thomas, but they have been very quiet about Manningham. I have read one source that mentions a link to Dallas as far as Manningham is concerned.
I don’t know what they think of DeSean Jackson. I do know that I prefer Manningham and Manningham’s size is one reason. Also, the West Coast teams seem more interested in Jackson. (Denver and Tampa Bay)
Limas Sweed
James Hardy
Malcolm Kelly
The three big receivers listed above or potential first round picks project to T.O.’s proto-type position or the X position. These are your more bigger and physical receivers.
It’s my opinion, that Dallas will not draft Sweed, Kelly, or Hardy in round one or in round two with a trade down.
If I was Jerry Jones, I would take a very good look at Mario Urrutia and Steve Johnson (Kentucky). Both project to be taken in the 6-7 round. Both could be steals if they pan out. Urrutia would project to the X positon or split end. He has been compared to Plaxico Burress, and
Dallas talked to him at the combine. The Dolphins did too.
Other receivers Dallas would look at in round two would be:
Early Doucet
Earl Bennett
Andre Caldwell
Doucet had a very good work out at his pro day, but he ran about a 4.54 or 4.55. That should insure him going in round two. He will be a very good value in round two, but he isn’t the deep threat Manningham or Thomas could be in the NFL. Doucet isn’t a burner like Terry Glenn was.
Doucet may not have the upside of the two afore mentioned players, but he is a solid or safe pick, if he stays healthy, for some team that sees a good fit. He is strong and polished, and he is ready to make the transition.
Doucet could get vertical in college, but projecting him to a certain position is tough. He wasn’t really great at any position, but he was pretty good at all three. I’m not sure where he will fit best in the NFL. He has been compared to Anquan Bolden. If he can be like Bolden, it might not matter where you put him.
Bennett is being looked at by West Coast teams Philadelphia and Denver. He doesn’t have elite long speed, but he is tough and is a good YAC player. Also, he did run a 4.48 at his pro day, so he has good speed. He just isn’t a real burner. I can see why the West Coast teams are eyeing him. When you are throwing all those short routes, long speed isn’t as important. I like Bennett. I think he is a stand up double for a team like Denver.
Caldwell is the toughest one to measure in my opinion. I still am not sure about him, and I’ve seen plenty of Florida games. I know he probably isn’t an X player. He has long speed, but it really didn’t show up big in the games I watched him play. He is quick coming out of his cuts. I’m not sure what kind of a YAC player he is. He could be a boom or bust type player, or he could be just a good player.
Other receivers to note:
Donnie Avery
Eddie Royal
Jordy Nelson
Franklin (Missouri)
Paul Hubbard
Harry Douglas
Douglas is light, and he may be a slot guy. Avery isn’t the best route runner, and he may be just a slot guy. Paul Hubbard has all the measurables to ba a really good X. If he learns how to catch the ball, he could be a steal. He will probably boom or bust. Hubbard had a great pro day and a team might take a third round flier on him. Jordy Nelson may be a possession type receiver in the mold of a Drew Bennett. People either like him or they don’t. Opinions vary.
Eddie Royal is a wildcard. We know Dallas likes him. I’m not sure how good he can be. He was impressive at the Senior Bowl and combine. He probably will be gone by the time Dallas picks in round three and round two would be reaching in my opinion.
In closing, there are two players who are projected to be drafted in the late first to early second round that fit the classic Z position profile.
Mario Manningham and Devin Thomas.
In fact, Thomas’ YAC and size would probably allow him to be an X receiver some day. I think Manningham projects to be a pure Z WR. Manningham will need to get stronger, but he has the skills and build and toughness to make the adjustment to the NFL. Look where Marvin Harrison has played his entire career. Harrison plays the Z WR while the more physcial Wayne plays the X WR.
BishopWest:
Raf,
I found this quote for you, “Dates for training camp will not be set until the Cowboys’ preseason schedule is finalized.”
Gray:
The NFL’s 2008 Thursday night season opener:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7956248?MSNHPHMA
Boy from Oz:
Scout, I like your analysis, I hadn’t really thought of it in those terms. Just to put another layer on it:
The NYG’s beat the #3 (Boys), #2 (GB) and #1 (NE) offences in a row with a press and pressure scheme. SD would likely have beaten NE with the same scheme if not for their injuries. This is the blueprint – it will be copied and applied to teams like us.
So we have to be able to beat it. So whether you are talking X, Y, Z, P, Q or R I would be looking for players with the skills or potential to make the right reads and get a quick release at the line. Not sure we have it on the roster outside of TO and TG.
A large, physical WR is lower risk in this regard, as long as they have a decent burst off the line. Wes Welker is now the model fo